One of the characteristics of gutter discourse is regurgitation of information by people who don’t understand it.
True science is pretty easy to spot.
I challenge this statement. I think it is obvious that for something to be true, it has to be open to challenge. Anyone can write a scientific paper that is totally hog wash and the only way to know it is hog wash or not is for it to be replicated and or refuted. There is no science without the process of open debate. There is no way to tell if the data was pulled from thin air. No way to know if the method followed was the method described.
We know people P hack. Is it obvious when someone P-hacks?
I would propose that any system that does not have any sort of corrective feedback cannot be trusted. Is it noted on a paper that is published that it has or has not been replicated? Is there any corrective action that is taken against those that publish fraud or that p-hack?
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well, I’m in the gutter, proudly - climate change denying antivaxxer (after the last fours years, how can you not be). ‘safe and effective’ - remember that? aged like milk. birthrates have fallen everywhere that vaxxed, as predicted by numerous cancelled knowledgeable people beforehand. Th Malthusians have been at it a long time, yes the Pill and other insidious poisons both medical and social, but the covid vax was a step change input. here is just one early (2022) analysis. ALARMING Drop in Birth Rates and Fertility Among mRNA Vaccinated Women
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Quite right. What was the scientific basis behind that claim? I think we can agree that it’s at least within the realm of possibly to determine the efficacy of the shot (although we now know that it wasn’t effective), but how can you determine the mid- to long-term safety profile without doing the requisite longitudinal studies? Well, you can’t—it’s physically impossible—and no amount of “scientific” hand waving can change that. It was a bald-face lie that all the public health agencies embraced with gusto and repeated over and over. My mother taught me that if someone lies to you about one thing, they will lie to you about anything. That being said, there is a lot of confusion and misinformation on all sides of the issue and it’s really hard to get a handle on the truth. But my days of blindly trusting medical authority are totally over. I will always do my own research (and try to find the contrarian view) before agreeing to any medical intervention.
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I agree with this and have seen it first hand. The problem is that most of us don’t have the time or the ability (and it has nothing to do with intelligence) to evaluate primary sources of information for ourselves. The best that most of us can do is to get as many informed and diverse opinions as possible, then use heuristics, past experience and gut feeling to come to a decision. Sometimes you get it right, sometimes you don’t.
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Antivaxxers? What does that term mean?
I know people who would not take a trip to Europe – let alone North Africa – without first getting their US government -issued, World Health Organization-approved “International Certificate of Vaccination” up to date. And yet those same people had very strong science-based reservations about the compulsory Covid treatments which were mischaracterized as “vaccines”. Sadly, those who push the Big Government line conflate those reasonable prudent informed individuals with some very small minority (possibly non-existent) who reject all vaccinations.
The science of the CovidScam was wrapped up early on by the Diamond Princess incident – a real-world test in which thousands of people were locked up in a cruise ship in which Covid was running wild. Only a handful of people died, and they were all well beyond standard human age of mortality and had serious pre-existing conditions. Covid was proved by the evidence to be nothing more than an unfortunately bad case of flu, with which the human race has lived for eons.
There was never any science-based case for rushing out an untested gene treatment, mis-labeling it a “vaccine”, and trying to force it on everyone. There was never a science-based case for shutting schools & churches, for social distancing, or for doing vast economic damage to millions of people. Anyone who cares about science should never toss out contemptuous terms like “Antivaxxer” which are intended to shut down discussion; to do so would be to throw oneself into the gutter.
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I understand your confusion, and to be fair, I think @eggspurt was referring to people who were against all vaccines, not just the COVID-19 ones. Prior to COVID-19, I believed in vaccines, but now I’m not so sure. If I had a baby today, I would probably not vaccinate them—at all. And for me, personally, I don’t think I’ll ever take another vaccine again (and that includes “traditional” vaccines), so I guess that makes me a de factor anti-vaxxer. Please don’t take what I’m saying as medical advice—I’m not qualified—I’m just expressing my current thinking, which is always subject to change. As Dr. Phil (not an MD) says, “Never substitute my judgment for your own.”
Yes, I couldn’t agree more. I must admit that the use of the term “anti-vaxxer” rubbed me slightly the wrong way as well, since, I guess, I sort of am one (at least for now). 
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You guys are asking me to spend even more time arguing on a topic where I’ve already established an objective record of making correct predictions over the years. Basically, I’m supposed to be empathic and spend a few more hours knee-deep in the gutter.
To which I say: no, thank you.
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I don’t think anyone is asking you to do that. As far as I’m concerned, I said from the get-go that we’d have to agree to disagree. Even though we don’t have a meeting of the minds on this particular topic, I do appreciate your perspective (and you might even be right)!
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I am still a big supporter of Tetanus and whooping cough shots
Once a decade
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Evidence that science is not obvious
When Cochrane published their 2023 mask review, it was the seventh iteration of a process that began 18 years previously. Back in 2006, Cochrane researchers raked through the scientific literature to see if they could determine what interventions could halt the spread of viruses. They found no good evidence that masks work. The scientists then updated their review in 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2020.
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I’m happy in the gutter and healthy. As an ex-military person I was jabbed with every thing, including the bubonic plague (before Gulf War 1), and still have my needle book to show it. I’ve had my doubts about the governance of ‘western liberal democracies’ for some decades, but when the covid thing happened it was blatant the fix was in. My family and I are not cv vaxxed, so I am proudly an anti-vaxxer now. All those that support the tyrannical policies need to go out and get all their shots up to date, and keep doing so. If they will not…?
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