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Mr. Netanyahu made some good points. However, heās wrong about one thing: there will not be peace in the Levant. That young man in the video is an old man today, yet so little has changed in the nearly half-century intervening. Change a few of the names and the same debate could have happened last year. None of the meddling imperial powers over centuries have left a lasting impression.
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Iām here because Iām also trying to understand whatās going on - these conversations are to make sense of it. With that, some of the theories are implausible.
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Transcript:
0.00 Speaker 1: PLO state is a deadly danger to world peace because it is a surest guarantee of increased terrorism and war. However noble the idea may sound, I call that as my first witness, Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu - a graduate of MIT. He is an Israeli and he is a man who has written widely on this question before the house tonight. Mr. Netanyahu, is the issue of self-determination the core of the conflict in the Middle East?
0.42 Mr. Netanyahu: No, I donāt believe it is. The real core of the conflict is the unfortunate Arab refusal to accept the State of Israel. For 20 years, the Arabs had both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and if self-determination were the core of the conflict, they could have easily established a Palestinian state then, but they didnāt.
1.12 Moderator: When did the issue arise then?
1.15 Mr. Netanyahu: For 20 years, we didnāt hear a word about self-determination. What we did hear, those of us living in the Middle East, was about driving the Jews into the sea. After 1967, under the leadership of the PLO, the strategy shifted to adopting a moderate, dressed-up slogan that talked in terms of a secular democratic state and then Palestinian self-determination. But what this really means is the destruction of the State of Israel. Let me quote the PLO Information Office in a Dutch paper on May 5th, 1977: āOur objective remains the destruction of the Zionist State of Israel.ā
2.10 Moderator: Do the Palestinians have a right to a separate state?
2.20 Mr. Netanyahu: No, I donāt think they do. The Palestinians define themselves as part of the Arab nation, which has 21 states. There already exists a Palestinian stateāJordan, with 60% of its population being Palestinian. So, the demand is for a 22nd Arab state and a second Palestinian state.
3.03 Moderator: What should be done with the Palestinians on the West Bank?
3.34 Mr. Netanyahu: The Palestinians in the West Bank will be offered full human rights and civil rights. The Arabs living in Israel within the pre-1967 boundaries are the only Arabs in the Middle East with full human rights and the right to vote for their government. I believe the same rights should be offered to Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in a final peace agreement.
4.12 Moderator: Do you sincerely believe we can have peace in the Middle East?
4.13 Mr. Netanyahu: Yes, I sincerely hope so. As a 28-year-old who has defended my country in two wars, I want peace more than anyone. The stumbling block to peace is the demand for a PLO state, which means more war and violence.
4.42 Moderator: Mr. Gently, could you address the issue of full human rights for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with the presence of Israeli forces?
4.58 Mr. Netanyahu: The Arabs living in Israel, about 400,000 between 1948 and 1967, enjoy full human rights. The West Bank and Gaza Strip are undergoing a transition period. Once negotiations conclude, thereās no reason why these Arabs shouldnāt have full human rights and the right to vote.
5.54 Mr. Lata: Does the city itself accept that the people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have the right to vote on whatever future they choose?
6.02 Mr. Netanyahu: In the event that the negotiation process continues, we are talking about eventual citizenship of some kindāeither Jordanian or Israeliāwhere these people will vote.
6.19 Mr. Lata: Given yourself the right to determine that you are an Israeli, how do you justify negating the other entity?
6.22 Mr. Netanyahu: I have never rejected another entity nor declared my intent to destroy it. It is the Palestinian leaders who define themselves as part of the Arab nation and already have a Palestinian state. There is no right to establish a second one on my doorstep which threatens my existence.
7.12 Mr. Ogami: You seem very patriotic. Does Israelās dependence on the U.S. to maintain its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza trouble you?
7.24 Mr. Netanyahu: Israel has taken care of itself so far and offers the United States a stable, democratic ally in the Middle East.
7.55 Mr. Ogami: Given demographic predictions, doesnāt the possibility of an Arab majority within Israel challenge the foundation of the Jewish state?
8.01 Mr. Netanyahu: Latest figures show a decrease in the Arab birthrate due to higher education for women. I do not reject Palestinians or Arabs living among us. They are citizens of Israel and should have the right to multiply as they wish.
9.00 Moderator: Since the subject is what should the United States do, could you summarize why Europe and the United States should oppose the creation of a PLO state?
9.10 Mr. Netanyahu: The United States should oppose the creation of a Palestinian state because it is unjust to demand a 22nd Arab state and a second Palestinian state at the expense of the only Jewish state. It will also defeat the hopes of moderate Palestinians who genuinely want peace with Israel.
9.37 Moderator: Can Israel continue as a garrison state and still remain a democratic state?
9.43 Mr. Netanyahu: Israel does not intend to remain a garrison state. Israel wants to live in peace and be secure. If maintaining military guarantees ensures our survival, then yes, we should fight for our survival, but I hope we wonāt have to.
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Some theories are implausible, but so is the conventional (choose your side) view. Iām tried of listening to the BS.
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Surely you know they tried that and the result was civil war.
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Itās always interesting to observe the propaganda from the protesters if you know them personally. Hereās one nugget that got shared the other day:
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Seems like Palestinians canāt get along with anyone including Arabs
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Sounds like a reasonable request from a non NATO member
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Mearsheimer has relatives and in laws who are Jewish. He has been found āguiltyā of anti Semitism for criticizing the Israel lobby. He is skeptical of Israelās objective stated goal of destroying Hamas and for rejecting a two state solution in the West Bank.
Pat Buchanan has received similar invective.
Edit: (above in italics)
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Name-calling (racist, homophobic, islamophobic, antisemitic, misogynistic) is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Itās the way of the longhouse and of a culture in decline. If thatās all youāve got left, your clip is empty.
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It is that. It is also a way for the Usual Suspects to avoid having an adult discussion about the real issues. They tell themselves they cannot be expected to have a discussion with a āracistā ā or whatever the target of their hate is that day.
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Thatās really interesting. I heard somewhere during my Bible-thumping Prot childhood that there will be a separate divine judgment at The End for anyone who has persecuted Jews. And also that in the last days they will be persecuted world-wide and itās a Christianās duty to hide and protect them. But Iāve never found the biblical source for these beliefs. It doesnāt seem to be in Revelation.
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Evangelical Christians are Zionist. According to Mearsheimer, 50 million of them Evangelical Christians are a big component of the Israel lobby. They donāt care if cosmopolitan secular Jews despise them. But Netanyahu always meets with Christian leaders whenever he visits USA. Many evangelicals travel to Israel annually, their version of Mecca.
For the record I do support a Jewish homeland. That doesnāt mean I agree with Israel and the lobby. Before 1973, USA provided zero military aid to Israel. Do we blame this on Nixon and Kissinger? Partially but not completely
Edit: Are Christian zionists guilty of judicial activism? The Bible version of the living constitution.
more edits: @Hypatia regarding āseparate divine judgmentā I think you are correct about āno biblical source for these beliefsā in Revelation.
Switching gears to Ukraine: Who Caused the Ukraine War? - by John J. Mearsheimer
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Why doesnāt aipac have to register as a foreign agent?
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I have been reading of the unexpectedly large military equipment sent to Egypt over the recent (Biden) past. Why does Egypt need a yet stronger military? It is already substantially larger than Israelās. I donāt think itās because Israelis have designs on Egypt as part of āGreater Israelā. Egypt has no enemies. I can only conclude the answer to ācui bono?ā Is the US defense industry (and associated obligatory kickbacks to Biden & buddies).
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Perhaps to protect Egyptās governing clique from Egyptās citizens?
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Indeed. the army owns virtually everyhing, including various archaeological sites.
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Thatās not what itās configured for. Massive numbers of fighter jets, tanks, and ships, including amphibious assault ships suggest otherwise.
Although such amphibious assault capability would work well against any country who tried to shut down the eastern end of the Red Sea to block the Suez Canal, recent events have shown that not to be the case.
We are left with a situation like Kuwait 1990. Kuwait was well enough armed to defend itself against Iraq but revealed those arms were purchased to kill infidels and stood downā¦
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