# MEI vs DEI
**URL:** https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775
**Category:** General Discussion
**Tags:** diversity-inclusion-equity, dei
**Created:** [17 July 2024 07:04 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775 "2024-07-17T07:04:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@eggspurt](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/eggspurt)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 07:04 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/1 "2024-07-17T07:04:16Z")
This [X post](https://x.com/alexandr_wang/status/1801331034916851995) has been making rounds:
> Today we’ve formalized an important hiring policy at Scale. We hire for MEI: merit, excellence, and intelligence. This is the email I’ve shared with our @scale\_AI team.
> ———————————————————
>
> ### MERITOCRACY AT SCALE
>
> In the wake of our fundraise, I’ve been getting a lot of questions about talent. All of our external success—powering breakthroughs in L4 autonomy, partnering with OpenAI on RLHF going back to GPT-2, supporting the DoD and every major AI lab, and the recent $1bn financing transaction—all of it is downstream from us hiring the best people for the job. Talent is our #1 input metric.
>
> Because of this, I spend a lot of my time on recruiting. I either personally interview every hire or sign off on every candidate packet. It’s the thing I spend the plurality of my time on, easily. But everyone can and should contribute to this effort. There are almost a thousand of us now, and it takes a lot to hire quickly while maintaining, and continuing to raise, our bar for quality.
>
> That’s why this is the time to codify a hiring principle that I consider crucial to our success: **Scale is a meritocracy, and we must always remain one.**
>
> Hiring on merit will be a permanent policy at Scale.
>
> It’s a big deal whenever we invite someone to join our mission, and those decisions have never been swayed by orthodoxy or virtue signaling or whatever the current thing is. I think of our guiding principle as **MEI: merit, excellence, and intelligence.**
>
> That means we hire only the best person for the job, we seek out and demand excellence, and we unapologetically prefer people who are very smart.
>
> We treat everyone as an individual. We do not unfairly stereotype, tokenize, or otherwise treat anyone as a member of a demographic group rather than as an individual.
>
> We believe that people should be judged by the content of their character — and, as colleagues, be additionally judged by their talent, skills, and work ethic.
>
> There is a mistaken belief that meritocracy somehow conflicts with diversity. I strongly disagree. No group has a monopoly on excellence. A hiring process based on merit will naturally yield a variety of backgrounds, perspectives, and ideas. Achieving this requires casting a wide net for talent and then objectively selecting the best, without bias in any direction. We will not pick winners and losers based on someone being the “right” or “wrong” race, gender, and so on. It should be needless to say, and yet it needs saying: doing so would be racist and sexist, not to mention illegal.
>
> Upholding meritocracy is good for business and is the right thing to do. This approach not only results in the strongest possible team, but also ensures we’re treating our colleagues with fairness and respect.
>
> As a result, everyone who joins Scale can be confident that they were chosen for their outstanding talent, not any other reasons.
>
> MEI has gotten us to where we are today. And it’s the same thing that’ll get us where we’re going, as we embark on our next chapter focusing on data abundance, frontier data, and reliable measurement to accelerate the development and adoption of AI models.
>
> **Alex**
Here are the attempts to take it down, kinda spinning down the drain:
> **[Silicon Valley leaders are once again declaring ‘DEI’ bad and ‘meritocracy’...](https://techcrunch.com/2024/06/23/silicon-valley-leaders-are-once-again-declaring-dei-bad-and-meritocracy-good-but-theyre-wrong/)**
>
> Scale AI founder Alexandr Wang set off another debate with an anti-DEI post. It revealed a lot about the current state of DEI in tech.
> **[DEI? More like 'common decency' — and Silicon Valley is saying 'no thanks' |...](https://techcrunch.com/2024/06/28/dei-more-like-common-decency-and-silicon-valley-is-saying-no-thanks/)**
>
> Welcome to Startups Weekly — Haje's weekly recap of everything you can’t miss from the world of startups. Sign up here to get it in your inbox every
The author of the second takedown of MEI ended up getting fired from TechCrunch (here’s the [original version of the second article](https://archive.is/BC4bd)). Times are changing.
---
### Author:  [@jdougan](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/jdougan)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 08:56 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/2 "2024-07-17T08:56:58Z")
The problem is going to come if there are uneven patterns of merit across “protected” groups that may have little to do with Scale. Then they are going to need to convince the diversity police you are not a bunch of racist assholes if you have half of the employees being East Asian. Which may be impossible.
edit: the tweet reads to me like Alexandr Wang hasn’t considered this a possible case, but that is likely just smoke.
---
### Author:  [@Citizen\_bitcoin](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Citizen_bitcoin)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 09:19 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/3 "2024-07-17T09:19:01Z")
Mr. Wang is getting a lot of attention from X celebrities such as Elon Musk.
Did I say X celebrity? Someone slap me.
He should get rid of I for intelligence, which is already a taboo subject
I believe CalTech is 43% Asian which means MIT is guilty of shenanigans.
Regarding the diversity police, they should probably be less aggressive in light of the recent Scotus cases striking down Bakke, 1978 and Grutter, 2003, in which Justice O’Connor wrote by 2028 affirmative action should be phased out completely
John Walker had a post or comment about the tricky definition of merit. In that case, maybe intellilgence should be emphasized more since we can quantify it, sort of.
Add:
> [@The Life & Times of Claude Shannon](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/the-life-times-of-claude-shannon/4185/9):
>
> “Meritocracy” is one of those words, like “liberal” and “fascist”, which has so mutated since its having been coined (in 1958) that it means almost nothing or conveys Shannon information of essentially zero bits if used without further explanation. “Meritocracy” first appeared in Michael Young’s 1958 novel [The Rise of the Meritocracy](https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/reading_list/indices/book_480.html) (link is to my review). Young was an intellectual stalwart of the British Labour Party and author of its first postwar manifesto. His book is a wry dystopia co…
---
### Author:  [@eggspurt](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/eggspurt)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 09:23 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/4 "2024-07-17T09:23:22Z")
> [@Citizen\_bitcoin](#):
>
> I believe CalTech is 43% Asian which means MIT is guilty of shenanigans.
I wonder if that’s because of this:
> Unnoticed, many “princelings” — progenies of the 500 families that founded the PRC in 1949 — have quietly left with their ill-begotten gains, and settled in exile, mostly in the Los Angeles area.
> **[Communist China: A Long March to Collapse?](https://cepa.org/article/communist-china-a-long-march-to-collapse/)**
>
> Only those ignorant of its history think Communist China will survive forever. But the death rattles indicate that it won’t.
Boston, on the other hand, seems to have a considerable Taiwan contingent.
---
### Author:  [@Citizen\_bitcoin](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Citizen_bitcoin)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 09:41 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/5 "2024-07-17T09:41:50Z")
> **[Microsoft DEI Lead Blasts Company in Internal Email After Team Is Reportedly...](https://www.ign.com/articles/microsoft-dei-lead-blasts-company-in-internal-email-after-team-is-reportedly-laid-off)**
>
> Microsoft is reportedly shuttering a major diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) team, according to an email sent by the team's leader to a significant number of Microsoft staff last week, in which the lead also accuses the company's executive...
---
### Author:  [@jdougan](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/jdougan)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 09:43 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/6 "2024-07-17T09:43:55Z")
Lots of East Asian ethnicities here in ~~Mordor~~ the LA basin. Japanese, old diaspora Chinese, Koreans (enough for two Koreatowns), Vietnamese, Laotians, etc. And of course Caltech is one of those destination schools people try to get into from everywhere. I’m not sure five hundred families are enough to significantly push the numbers.
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### Author:  [@pturmel](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/pturmel)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 12:35 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/7 "2024-07-17T12:35:55Z")
> [@eggspurt](#):
>
> attempts to take it down
Heh. Techcrunch is one of my regularly-checked bookmarks. I consider its inclusion in my reading a way to kill two birds with one stone:
- Gain insight into the elite’s Current Thing, while
- Keeping up on technology business trends
Makes for painful reading, sometimes.
---
### Author:  [@Citizen\_bitcoin](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Citizen_bitcoin)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 14:26 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/8 "2024-07-17T14:26:43Z")
According to TechCrunch, Scale AI is a multibillion dollar business with 1.6 billion in cash.
The article cites the 2015 McKinsey study that concluded diversity is more profitable. That study was recently debunked by WSJ
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### Author:  [@Citizen\_bitcoin](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Citizen_bitcoin)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 15:05 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/9 "2024-07-17T15:05:12Z")
~~Caltech does not practice affirmative action in its admissions process. Instead, it focuses solely on academic merit, with no preferences given to athletes, legacies, development cases, or specific races[1][5]. This approach has led to a predominantly Asian and Caucasian student body, with relatively few African American students[1]. While Caltech does not have affirmative action policies, it does have policies against discrimination and harassment based on various protected characteristics, including race, gender, and disability, and actively seeks to recruit and include underrepresented groups in its hiring and academic processes[2][3].~~
Sources
[1] no affirmative action? - College Confidential Forums [no affirmative action? - California Institute of Technology - College Confidential Forums](https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/no-affirmative-action/953855)
[2] About - Caltech Center for Inclusion and Diversity [About - Inclusion and Diversity](https://ccid.caltech.edu/about)
[3] Nondiscrimination and Equal Employment Opportunity [Nondiscrimination and Equal Employment Opportunity | Caltech Academic Catalog](https://catalog.caltech.edu/current/general-information/institute-policies/nondiscrimination-and-equal-employment-opportunity/)
[4] Wow… I wonder what the Ivies would look like if admissions were … [Wow... I wonder what the Ivies would look like if admissions were 100% merit. No... | Hacker News](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3544283)
[5] Caltech’s Honest Admissions Policy - WSJ [https://www.wsj.com/articles/caltech-college-admissions-asians-11639431134](https://www.wsj.com/articles/caltech-college-admissions-asians-11639431134)
---
### Author:  [@Citizen\_bitcoin](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Citizen_bitcoin)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 15:19 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/10 "2024-07-17T15:19:13Z")
The mayor of Boston is a child of immigrants from Taiwan
Michelle Wu
Add:
In high school a classmate used to call MIT Made In Taiwan
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### Author:  [@eggspurt](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/eggspurt)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 16:15 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/11 "2024-07-17T16:15:41Z")
> [@Citizen\_bitcoin](#):
>
> The article cites the 2015 McKinsey study that concluded diversity is more profitable. That study was recently debunked by WSJ
They’re still citing that piece of rubbish? I’ve expressed a pretty low opinion of it here quite a while ago: [The Crazy Years - #3371 by eggspurt](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/the-crazy-years/1451/3371) – the credibility and aptitude of the lead author is quite limited.
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### Author:  [@gms](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/gms)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 16:21 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/12 "2024-07-17T16:21:47Z")
As an optimist, I think this is a great development. Long overdue. Hope to see it take off and not just wishful thinking.
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### Author:  [@gms](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/gms)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 18:52 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/13 "2024-07-17T18:52:51Z")
Probably worth pointing out recent developments with Tractor Supply, John Deere, and most recently Microsoft (!)… all positive developments supporting the hypothesis that DEI doctrine is on the decline.
> **[Microsoft Cuts DEI Team: "No Longer Business Critical" ](https://www.zerohedge.com/political/microsoft-cuts-dei-team-no-longer-business-critical)**
>
> And soon, all those woke degrees will be useless...
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### Author:  [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 19:39 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/14 "2024-07-17T19:39:20Z")
> [@Citizen\_bitcoin](#):
>
> Caltech does not practice affirmative action in its admissions process.
Dead wrong. The footnote is to someone who posted that they heard it. Caltech is pretty extreme.
> **[Demographic Data](https://inclusive.caltech.edu/about/demographic-data)**
>
> Caltech strives to become an example of how a diverse and inclusive community, committed to equity, permits individuals to thrive in fulfilling the Institute's mission of forefront research and education. Find resources, updates, demographic data,...
---
### Author:  [@drlorentz](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/drlorentz)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 19:44 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/15 "2024-07-17T19:44:30Z")
> [@Citizen\_bitcoin](#):
>
> John Walker had a post or comment about the tricky definition of merit.
It’s amusing that Michael Young was a lefty but his son, Tobey (Tobes to his pals) is a Tory. There was a slightly amusing film about Tobey Young, [How to Lose Friends & Alienate People](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0455538/reference/), based on Mr. Young’s experiences in New York. Quite a contrast with his old man.
---
### Author:  [@drlorentz](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/drlorentz)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 19:47 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/16 "2024-07-17T19:47:30Z")
> [@Citizen\_bitcoin](#):
>
> Caltech does not practice affirmative action in its admissions process.
Of course they do. If they didn’t, the Asian numbers would be higher, the latinx number would be lower, and the black number would be zero.
---
### Author:  [@gms](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/gms)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 22:34 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/17 "2024-07-17T22:34:31Z")
Caltech pivoted deep into DEI territory around 2020 or 2021. My thesis is this drastically limited their appeal, to MIT’s advantage for the truly talented, at least. Say what you will about MIT, so far it looks like once Sally Kornbluth took over, she was much more skilled in navigating the current political sensibilities without damaging the brand as much as Harvard and others.
---
### Author:  [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)
#### Post date: [17 July 2024 23:39 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/18 "2024-07-17T23:39:02Z")
Caltech had gone there in the 1990s. Re 2020, like many schools they apparently regarded Covid as an excuse to dump use of SAT scores to allow them to turbocharge DEI. But they likely have seen attrition of DEI admitees as a result.
A huge problem Caltech presumably has is due to its small size it can’t offer multiple tracks.
---
### Author:  [@Citizen\_bitcoin](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Citizen_bitcoin)
#### Post date: [18 July 2024 17:29 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/19 "2024-07-18T17:29:50Z")
Sorry for my egregious error and thanks for correction.
The diversity inclusion website is almost as bad as MIT chocolate city
I should consult primary sources in the present and future.
[https://www.caltech.edu/campus-life-events/campus-announcements/statement-on-the-us-supreme-court-ruling-on-race-in-college-admissions](https://www.caltech.edu/campus-life-events/campus-announcements/statement-on-the-us-supreme-court-ruling-on-race-in-college-admissions)
---
### Author:  [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)
#### Post date: [18 July 2024 18:28 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/mei-vs-dei/4775/20 "2024-07-18T18:28:45Z")
I think Caltech gave up on excellence in undergraduate education and is hoping to get to keep its graduate and research programs.
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