# Ukraine and Russia: War and Consequences **URL:** \ **Category:** The Happening World\ **Tags:** ukraine, russia, separatism, donetsk-lugansk, vladimir-putin\ **Created:** [21 February 2022 20:51 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919 "2022-02-21T20:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/ctlaw/32/42_2.png) [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)\ **Post date:** [9 August 2023 16:35 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/322 "2023-08-09T16:35:28Z")
> **[Massive Explosion Outside Moscow Leaves Dozens Injured](https://www.yahoo.com/news/massive-explosion-outside-moscow-leaves-100350074.html)** > > The plant that went up in flames reportedly manufactures equipment for the Russian military. ---
**Author:** ![CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/ctlaw/32/42_2.png) [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)\ **Post date:** [9 August 2023 21:16 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/323 "2023-08-09T21:16:10Z")
Perhaps Germany fears Taurus may lose sales to Storm Shadow and SCALP. > **[Sure Sounds Like Germany Is Giving Ukraine the Mighty Taurus Cruise Missile](https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a44763750/germany-close-to-giving-ukraine-taurus-cruise-missiles/)** > > Bad news for Russian bunkers. ---
**Author:** ![civilwestman](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/civilwestman/32/25_2.png) [@civilwestman](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/civilwestman)\ **Post date:** [9 August 2023 22:59 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/324 "2023-08-09T22:59:24Z")
It’s an interesting juxtaposition: countries whose elites preach that “people don’t kill people, guns kill people”. Those same countries’ elites seem to think they can escalate the power and range of “guns+” that kill Russians - with malice aforethought - and expect zero retribution. This is, indeed, the kind of miscalculation which makes WWIII much more likely. Do they really not remember how Russia responded a few short generations ago when facing a prior existential threat? Do they think actions at this level are countered with talking points? Do they think Russians are like their own cowed citizen-subjects? ---
**Author:** ![CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/ctlaw/32/42_2.png) [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)\ **Post date:** [11 August 2023 13:16 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/325 "2023-08-11T13:16:10Z")
> Germany may provide Ukraine with long-range Taurus cruise missiles in the coming months, but they are expected to be modified to make it impossible for them to strike Russian territory, German news magazine [Der Spiegel](https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundesregierung-prueft-lieferung-von-taurus-marschflugkoerpern-a-5412d838-4434-4706-86a3-292006f7912d) reported on Aug. 11, citing its own sources. > > A “reconsideration” about supplying Ukraine with the long-range weapons is now taking place, even though German Chancellor Olaf Scholz hesitated to provide Ukraine with them due to concerns that Kyiv could attack the Russian territory, the report said. > > Over the past few weeks, German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius has asked the Taurus manufacturer to integrate a corresponding target programming limitation into the cruise missiles, the magazine claimed. > **[Germany may provide Ukraine with modified Taurus missiles – media reports](https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-may-ukraine-modified-taurus-104600320.html)** > > Germany may provide Ukraine with long-range Taurus cruise missiles in the coming months, but they are expected to be modified to make it impossible for them to strike Russian territory, German news magazine Der Spiegel reported on Aug. 11, citing its... ---
**Author:** ![CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/ctlaw/32/42_2.png) [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)\ **Post date:** [12 August 2023 05:27 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/326 "2023-08-12T05:27:34Z")
> **[Air-To-Air Missiles From UK Now Being Used By Ukraine As SAMs](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/asraam-air-to-air-missiles-from-uk-being-used-by-ukraine-as-sams)** > > The new ad hoc ground-based air defense system is the latest advanced Western weapon rushed into service by Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/ctlaw/32/42_2.png) [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)\ **Post date:** [14 August 2023 00:03 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/327 "2023-08-14T00:03:43Z")
According top the Detroit Free Press, Biden is letting the Russians conduct military operations in the US. Or perhaps this should be a Gell Mann Amnesia post: > A fighter jet flying at the Willow Run Airport in Ypsilanti in the Thunder over Michigan air show crashed Sunday, with emergency crews rushing to the scene. The plane, a former Soviet — now Russian — MiG-23 aircraft, burst into flames when it hit the ground. > **[Fighter jet crashes during Thunder Over Michigan Airshow in Ypsilanti](https://www.yahoo.com/news/fighter-jet-crashes-during-thunder-213750465.html)** > > A retired Russian fighter jet flying in Yankee Air Museum’s Thunder Over Michigan Airshow at the Willow Run Airport near Ypsilanti crashed. ---
**Author:** ![johnwalker](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/johnwalker/32/17415_2.png) [@johnwalker](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/johnwalker)\ **Post date:** [14 August 2023 00:50 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/328 "2023-08-14T00:50:20Z")
> [@CTLaw](#): > > According top the Detroit Free Press, Biden is letting the Russians conduct military operations in the US. I suspect this was one of the 11 privately-owned MIG-23s registered in the U.S. See: > **[List of MiG-23 operators](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MiG-23_operators)** > > This is a list of Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23 operators. Active operators are in bold > As of 2021, the MiG-23 is operated by the air forces of Angola, Cuba, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, Kazakhstan, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria and Zimbabwe. > The Algerian Air Force (Force Aerienne Algerienne) received a total of around 80 MiG-23s of various marks from the Soviet Union, with deliveries beginning in 1979 and all aircraft retired by 2004. under Civilian/United States: > There are 11 civilian-owned MiG-23s registered in the United States of America according to the FAA.[6] Most of these were sold by ex-Warsaw Pact countries in the grand arms bazaar of the 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/ctlaw/32/42_2.png) [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)\ **Post date:** [14 August 2023 00:59 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/329 "2023-08-14T00:59:40Z")
It’s the writer’s reflexive “now Russian” inaccuracy. The owner has spares: > **[Cold War-era fighter jets to be overhauled, restored for flight in Gregg County](https://www.kltv.com/2021/11/04/cold-war-era-fighter-jets-be-overhauled-restored-flight-gregg-county/)** > > Two pieces of history have been brought to a hanger near the East Texas Regional Airport to be overhauled and restored for future flights. > **[Up to eight Cold War-Era MiG-23 Flogger fighter jets to be restored for...](https://theaviationgeekclub.com/up-to-eight-cold-war-era-mig-23-flogger-fighter-jets-to-be-restored-for-flight-in-the-us/)** > > Up to eight Cold War-Era MiG-23 Flogger fighter jets to be restored for flight in the US > **[East Texas pilot restores antique Russian fighter jet](https://www.kltv.com/2022/07/25/webxtra-east-texas-pilot-restores-antique-russian-fighter-jet-flying-status/)** > > KLTV’s Jamey Boyum talks with United 777 Pilot Dan Files about the other jet he flies: A MIG Russian fighter. He has four in a hangar at the East Texas Regional Airport in Gregg County. He has restored one back to flying status. ---
**Author:** ![johnwalker](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/johnwalker/32/17415_2.png) [@johnwalker](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/johnwalker)\ **Post date:** [14 August 2023 14:23 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/330 "2023-08-14T14:23:11Z")
Here is Juan Browne’s (Blancolirio) compilation of mobile phone videos (portrait mode, of course) of the ejection from and crash of the MIG-23 in Michigan. It is not clear at this point why the crew ejected—from one of the videos it appears the engine was operating at the time of the ejection and the plane did not appear to be out of control. Since the crew survived, I’m sure that’s one of the first things investigators will be asking them. [![](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/uploads/default/original/2X/2/24ab420c75c77b5655506cd506ca8f26124ae901.jpeg "Mig 23 Ejection Thunder Over Michigan Airshow 13 Aug 2023") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrDWpQMRK2U) ---
**Author:** ![jabowery](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/jabowery/32/5478_2.png) [@jabowery](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/jabowery)\ **Post date:** [14 August 2023 16:53 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/331 "2023-08-14T16:53:27Z")
The Carbon Footprint ![image](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/uploads/default/original/2X/6/61231071366d800a203f79dec00ab41910a5431d.png) ---
**Author:** ![Mettelus](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mettelus](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Mettelus)\ **Post date:** [14 August 2023 17:18 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/332 "2023-08-14T17:18:43Z")
Does the pilot have a YouTube channel? Might not know the ejecting to get a viral video was already tried. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/ctlaw/32/42_2.png) [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)\ **Post date:** [14 August 2023 17:24 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/333 "2023-08-14T17:24:48Z")
> [@johnwalker](#): > > it appears the engine was operating at the time of the ejection and the plane did not appear to be out of control. Was rear seater someone who could have grabbed the ejection handle by accident? ---
**Author:** ![eggspurt](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/eggspurt/32/3686_2.png) [@eggspurt](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/eggspurt)\ **Post date:** [15 August 2023 02:15 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/334 "2023-08-15T02:15:06Z")
> **[More Evidence That Russia’s Making Iranian Drones | FDD's Long War Journal](https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2023/07/more-evidence-that-russias-making-iranian-drones.php)** > > Further evidence has emerged indicating Russia has begun making Iranian kamikaze drones or at least prototypes thereof. > **[Dissecting Iranian drones employed by Russia in Ukraine](https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/7a394153c87947d8a602c3927609f572)** > > Ukraine field dispatch, November 2022 [https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article275474836.html](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article275474836.html) ---
**Author:** ![eggspurt](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/eggspurt/32/3686_2.png) [@eggspurt](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/eggspurt)\ **Post date:** [15 August 2023 14:50 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/335 "2023-08-15T14:50:02Z")
> **[A Drone’s View Behind Russian Lines: Cratered Fields and Charred Armor](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/10/world/europe/ukraine-drones-russia-war-zone.html)** > > A Ukrainian unit sent a drone into Russian-occupied territory to surveil the battlefront, and it brought back vivid images of the Russian side of the war zone. > Lieutenant Arutiunian, who uses the military call sign Doc — a reference to the doctorate in data mining he holds from Kyiv Polytechnic — commands four teams in the unmanned aerial vehicle service of the Ukrainian Volunteer Army, operating on the southern front. They deploy a variety of propeller-driven drones and planes to track Russian forces for the Ukrainian military and are constantly adjusting tactics and equipment to evade Russian interceptors. […] > > Ukrainian volunteers, many of them entrepreneurs and computer and technology professionals, were quick to exploit the use of cheap, commercial drones in the first months of the war. This gave the Ukrainian Army an advantage over Russian forces, which struggled with poor communications during the battle for Kyiv in March last year. […] > > This was an area that the Russians had abandoned after recent fighting, said a soldier using the call sign Gremlin, 23, who was a software developer before the war. She was comparing the new footage with an earlier satellite map of the area. “The Russians come back to positions they have left,” she said. ---
**Author:** ![Devereaux](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/devereaux/32/285_2.png) [@Devereaux](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Devereaux)\ **Post date:** [15 August 2023 15:03 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/336 "2023-08-15T15:03:59Z")
> [@CTLaw](#): > > > [@johnwalker](#): > > > > it appears the engine was operating at the time of the ejection and the plane did not appear to be out of control. > > Was rear seater someone who could have grabbed the ejection handle by accident? Don’t know how _this_ Mig was set up, but American 2-seat jets have the ability for command ejection by the back-seater. However, that authority is usually selected by the pilot, and by-and-large pilots _do not_ give their back-seaters this ability. I would be surprised if it were so set-up in this jet ride. Don’t know who the back-seater was, but I would suspect it was a paid ride. ---
**Author:** ![Gavin](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@Gavin](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Gavin)\ **Post date:** [15 August 2023 15:24 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/337 "2023-08-15T15:24:24Z")
An interesting summary from Larry Johnson: [How Will the War in Ukraine End? - A Son of the New American Revolution (sonar21.com)](https://sonar21.com/how-will-the-war-in-ukraine-end/) "._… something we should be contemplating if the world is going to avoid a nuclear holocaust. It boils down to three possibilities:_ \*\* Unconditional Surrender\* \*\* Negotiated Settlement\* \*\* Prolonged Conflict and Exhaustion, i.e. Stalemate\* _…_ _Ukraine is facing a situation like the one that confronted the Confederate General, Robert E. Lee, at Appomattox. Lee’s beleaguered army still wanted to carry on the fight against the North but, despite their spirit, they lacked the logistics and manpower to continue. Lee recognized the futility of the situation and agreed to the generous terms offered by General Ulysses Grant. I believe the moment is approaching when Ukraine’s General Zaluzhny will face a similar moment of truth. …_" ---
**Author:** ![johnwalker](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/johnwalker/32/17415_2.png) [@johnwalker](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/johnwalker)\ **Post date:** [15 August 2023 15:38 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/338 "2023-08-15T15:38:52Z")
> [@Devereaux](#): > > American 2-seat jets have the ability for command ejection by the back-seater. However, that authority is usually selected by the pilot, and by-and-large pilots _do not_ give their back-seaters this ability. In the video I posted today, _[EJECT! EJECT!](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/eject-eject-john-nichol-on-escaping-doomed-aircraft/3609)_, John Nichol and Ward Carroll discuss command eject at some length. Carroll (F-14 pilot for 15 years) says that originally pilots did not usually enable back seat command eject, but after several incidents in which the pilot was disabled or injured, now the majority do fly in that mode. It’s still at the pilot’s discretion, and presumably they wouldn’t enable it while flying an untrained person in the back seat, especially after the [2020 Rafale B incident in France](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/man-accidentally-ejects-himself-from-fighter-jet-during-surprise-flight). It was only due to a malfunction that the pilot was not ejected as well and was able to fly the plane back to the base without a canopy and land safely. (The passenger landed safely.) ---
**Author:** ![Devereaux](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/devereaux/32/285_2.png) [@Devereaux](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/Devereaux)\ **Post date:** [15 August 2023 15:51 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/339 "2023-08-15T15:51:19Z")
American 2-seat jets have the ability for command ejection by the back-seater. However, that authority is usually selected by the pilot, and by-and-large pilots _do not_ give their back-seaters this ability. [/quote] In the video I posted today, _[EJECT! EJECT!](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/eject-eject-john-nichol-on-escaping-doomed-aircraft/3609)_, John Nichol and Ward Carroll discuss command eject at some length. Carroll (F-14 pilot for 15 years) says that originally pilots did not usually enable back seat command eject, but after several incidents in which the pilot was disabled or injured, now the majority do fly in that mode. It’s still at the pilot’s discretion, and presumably they wouldn’t enable it while flying an untrained person in the back seat, especially after the [2020 Rafale B incident in France](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/man-accidentally-ejects-himself-from-fighter-jet-during-surprise-flight). It was only due to a malfunction that the pilot was not ejected as well and was able to fly the plane back to the base without a canopy and land safely. (The passenger landed safely.) [/quote] You are, of course, correct. Mostly it’s a question of crew trust. When a crew has flown together a bit, there is a bond that develops that allows the pilot to feel “safe” allowing his back seater to initiate ejection for both if he is injured. Remember, if the pilot initiates the ejection, the back seater goes automatically - _he_ has no choice (especially since he usually has no aircraft controls in the back). ---
**Author:** ![CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/ctlaw/32/42_2.png) [@CTLaw](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/CTLaw)\ **Post date:** [15 August 2023 16:11 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/340 "2023-08-15T16:11:39Z")
> [@johnwalker](#): > > but after several incidents in which the pilot was disabled or injured, now the majority do fly in that mode. It’s still at the pilot’s discretion As discussed in this documentary: [![](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/uploads/default/original/2X/a/a3c7824121ebf2045c89cc4aa87bd158d42379ba.jpeg "Top Gun Goose Dies") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeK7NQnulbM&t=59) and note what happens when the same pilot forgets to enable: [![](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/uploads/default/original/2X/9/941ca8a7b2b9844a6bcfdaa6fdfc4c0a136adc86.jpeg "F-14 Vs SU-57 Dogfight (Top Gun: Maverick)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igaXsfQlYy8&t=349) ---
**Author:** ![jdougan](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/user_avatar/scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/jdougan/32/2477_2.png) [@jdougan](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/u/jdougan)\ **Post date:** [16 August 2023 05:13 UTC](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919/341 "2023-08-16T05:13:08Z")
Ward Carrol wasn’t a pilot, he was a Radar Intercept Officer (RIO) backseater. Obviously, he had to knows a lot about all aspects to do his job. Some would argue the pilots were chauffers for the RIOs who were the actual brains of the operation, but that’s just inside baseball. edit: post on the Pilot/RIO relationship [Modern Warfare - #854 by jdougan](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/modern-warfare/3858/854) [Previous page](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919.md?page=16) [Next page](https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/ukraine-and-russia-war-and-consequences/919.md?page=18)