Vladimir Putin Statement on Ukraine, Recognition of Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics

Putin likely could have gotten all this* via negotiation and giving Ukraine a supply of oil and gas. That plus the existing nuclear infrastructure would have made Ukraine a very hospitable place for future energy-intensive industries.

  • The constitutional provision might have been more of an implicit understanding (Finlandization).

Dmitry Peskov said Moscow was demanding that Ukraine cease military action, change its constitution to enshrine neutrality, acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states.


That is really doubtful. These terms are more or less simply a restatement of what Russia has been saying for a long time – including in public documents sent to the US and NATO.

The element of all of this we should not forget is that the Ukraine is a very corrupt country – with known corruption extending all the way to the President of the United States (via his son). It seems that the ordinary Ukranian has as little control over the oligarchs running that country as we do over the Political Class running ours.


Presumably, that would have increased the chances for a deal


We can only look at what happened – no deal was achieved, despite Hunter Biden sitting on the Board of a prominent Ukranian gas company. The lack of a deal is very hard to understand, because the rulers of the Ukraine could probably have avoided the war and got most of what they wanted simply by agreeing never to join NATO. Especially interesting since apparently Zelensky campaigned for office on a peace platform.

Maybe this is tinfoil hat time, but there are reports (a) that there were a number of US-funded “Fauci Labs” in the Ukraine working on – who knows what?, and (b) Russia’s initial missile attacks seem to have focused on the cities where those labs were located. There are also rumors that Russia is beginning to release captured documents from those US-funded biolabs – but we peons will not learn about that because “Our Guys” have done their best to cut off all communications from Russia.

Maybe Putin is evil – but, if so, he is certainly not the only one.


I think both Putin and Zelenskyy (and perhaps even Biden) were being manipulated/mislead.


Rather than write a separate post about this war creating a Gell Mann Amnesia Effect overload, I’ll vent here.

Multiple times, I have heard supposed military experts mention that we should send “F-14s” to Ukraine. Similarly, none of the people comparing the active nuclear plants to Chernobyl mention the differences between PWR and graphite-moderated reactors.


Equally, we almost never hear mention of what was happening at Chernobyl when things went pear-shaped – They had installed a new safety system and were testing it.


Hunter was a Russian asset with his “Barisma” deal. Indeed, one of the Russian news outlet had a joking comment about how Barisma was a gift that kept on giving. The oil may have been Ukrainian but the owner was a Russian oligarch.


Which would explain the odd omission of Hunter from Putin’s war speech discussing Ukrainian corruption.

If Hunter was corrupt on behalf of anti-Russian forces Putin would have said so.

If Hunter was the epitome of ethical, Putin still would have asserted Hunter corrupt due to the clear appearances of corruption. It would be more believable than much of what Putin has said.

That leaves two possibilities: 1) Hunter was corrupt on behalf or Russia; or 2) Hunter was corrupt on behalf or both Russia and anti-Russian interests depending on the particular deal.


Ukranian armour—hold my beer.


Can lead to warm beer though. :wink:

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Trying to work out the geometry/physics.

Is the minimum sloshing necessarily associated with minimum variation in aim point?

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Seems your theory vis a vis Russia’s reasons for this war are falling apart upon reality. Russia had a real chance to stop the fighting, get what YOU allege they wanted, and walk away declaring themselves victors. They passed. ?Why would you think they would do that.

You note Ukraine is a corrupt country (?and ours is lily-white). What you FAIL to mention is that the majority of corruption is RUSSIAN, as are the oligarchs doing it. THIS is the “Russia Collusion” angle the news has been breathless over - right under their noses.

Please enlighten me, Devereaux. I missed that public announcement prior to the conflict getting hot about the Ukraine renouncing any intent to join NATO.

Yes, “Our Guys” are not “lily-white” – and that really makes me mad! I understand people in the West wanting to close their eyes to the increasing evidence that “Our Guys” are the ones who have been abusing the impoverished people of the Ukraine. We were all brought up with the idea that we were the ones with good intentions, even if occasionally we erred. To be forced to see the utter corruption and stupidity of those who rule us is very painful.

Now we know that “Our Guys” are just as bad as the leaders of Russia & China, what are we going to do about it?

Dimitry Rogozin, Director General of Roscosmos, vodka-tweets:

“At a meeting on the organization of hatred against the Russian people.”


One of the noteworthy aspects of this war is the apparent collapse of the Russian propaganda/disinformation machine.

Their most reliable allies in the west seem to have turned on them.


Has there ever really been an effective Russian propaganda machine? Think of the huge Democrat operation to demonize Russia (dishonestly) as a way to attack President Trump. Can anyone remember any effective push-back from Russia on those lies?

It is surprising that Russia does not have a more effective on-line presence, given the obvious strengths of Russian experts in software development. Equally, the massively powerful pro-Ukrainian on-line effort seems entirely disproportionate to the capacities of that very poor, corrupt country. Who is really the force behind the Twitter war which the Ukraine has been winning hands down?


Lazerpig on poor Russian performance:

He seems unaware of GLONASS in asserting that Russia does not a have such as system so that Russian weapons have to use GPS and the US is degrading it.

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Sticking my head out of the bunker and pointing the GPS monitor toward the south, I see 11 visible GPS satellites and 6 visible GLONASS, all with signals such that four of any are sufficient for a 3D fix. The ephemeris reports 7 Beidou satellites visible, but only 1 delivering a usable signal.

The application I am using is Android GPS Test, which is free.


I think I’m in love: