Letting an enemy influence the terms of a treaty involving the enemy and an ally reeks more like high treason than incompetence on behalf of Witkoff:
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Who is the enemy of who?
And, yes, it is really unfortunate that if one wants to reach an agreement, one has to talk and listen to the counterparty.
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We’ve had a pretty hot cold war with hybrid warfare, and well-documented mobilization of extremist destructive political forces on US soil driven by the likes of Russia and Qatar. These are clear enemies to anyone capable of tracing causality.
Ultimately, the competence of an envoy is going to be determined by their ability to lead to a lasting agreement. I doubt Wytkoff will be able to do it.
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Exactly! Russia is not my enemy. China has never done anything to make my life worse. I wish I could say the same about the denizens of the DC Swamp.
It is time to leave the Europeans to their own devices. Two European-initiated World Wars was two too many!
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Hmm… I thought in this specific context, the US is the mediator and Ukraine and Russia are the negotiating parties.
Is your contention that the mediator is blatantly biased towards one party? Not so clear to me – we would need to know what the mediator was saying to the other party.
The leak itself, however, is clear evidence that there are strong forces which want to derail the peace deal.
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… whereas reliance on the WSJ is just unvarnished incompetence. Maybe this thread needs to move over into the Gell-Mann Amnesia thread. Those guys have made an art form out of lying and making up anonymous sources (“people familiar with the matter” & “a person familiar with”), as have most of the legacy media. It should go without saying that the hacks at the WSJ have no idea how a promissory note was drafted, much less a European peace plan.
The WSJ piece w/o paywall: https://archive.is/8uqB8
But, hey, since we’re having fun with the lying, legacy media, it looks like the peace plan may work out anyway. The ways of diplomacy are mysterious.
Did I forget to remind eveyone that how ever much you hate journalists, it’s not enough.
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Rather that quoting a post on X, it would be more useful to cite the Bloomberg story itself because the reader could then learn that no audio recording has been made public. Thus, referring to this as an “audio leak” is misleading. All we have is a transcript produced by Bloomberg. Given the track record of the legacy media (viz., the Charlottesville “fine people” hoax and the recent BBC editing scandal regarding J6), it’s hard to trust such a transcript. It’s not inconceivable that the entire story is a fabrication or, at least, a distortion.
This is another one for the Gell-Mann Amnesia file.
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There is probably one accurate statement in that WSJ piece:
“Secretary of State Marco Rubio was handed a copy of the plan at the White House during Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s Nov. 18 visit to Washington, a person familiar with the situation said. Axios reported the draft’s existence that evening. Rubio was aware of the Witkoff-Kushner initiative, but didn’t know the full scope of what they had drafted before then, officials said.”
Now let me see … who likely leaked the draft to Axios? Do we need to ask? Why does Rubio still have a job? How many people in the US State Department are actually working for the Ukraine and not for the US?
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Classic Guardians reporting:
Hundreds of thousands of men die in Ukraine war. Women most affected.
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Yeah, but underneath the spin you’ll see pretty solid insight into how drone pilot units look like and function. I’m assuming Scalanyzer folks know how to do this.
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“Speaking on the condition of anonymity” equals fake news.
“this plan is designed to suppress information and investigative efforts” equals kooky conspiracy theory.
“Havana Syndrome” equals mass hysteria.
aka Mass psychogenic illness
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Ukraine has blown up a Russian submarine for the first time, using its Sub Sea Baby underwater drones
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) December 15, 2025
The cost of a Varshavyanka-class submarine (Kilo-class by NATO) is estimated at around $400 million. Due to sanctions, building one could cost up to $500 million. pic.twitter.com/ZOUKzZkS44
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The primary problem with surface and submerged drones vs aerial drones is payload capacity.
— John Ʌ Konrad V (@johnkonrad) December 16, 2025
Boats snd subs can carry a lot more weight than flying objects. A lot more explosive weight.pic.twitter.com/HrHwytlEnz https://t.co/z6ZkWPGSrO
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💥The process of clearing Ukrainian fields of russian mines and shells using an autonomous mechanical demining machine developed by Kharkiv engineers. pic.twitter.com/d6fivfvC2f
— SuperAgronom.com (@AgronomSa81976) December 16, 2025
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Irony. Remember when the bien pensant lectured us on the horrors of land mines? Seems they’re not so bad after all. Euroworms are slithering away out of the treaty as fast as they can slither.
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Found a use for the LCS:
🇺🇸 The U.S. Navy reports that USS Santa Barbara (LCS-32) has carried out the first-ever launch of a LUCAS one-way attack drone from an American warship in the Arabian Gulf.
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) December 18, 2025
LUCAS is a U.S.-developed drone similar to Iran’s Shahed-136.pic.twitter.com/TsnLaFpFMT
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