No Epstein Client List

Tangential – but it has to be said. There are genuine victims of disgusting pedophilia, and then there are “victims”.

It seems that most of the “children” abused by [parties the government refuses to identify] were 17 year old girls who had probably been sexually active since they were 13 or 14. No timid virgins there! Those young women knew what they were doing – when a rich man offered to pay them big bucks to fly on his private plane to his private island and, oh! by the way, you don’t need to bother bringing a swimsuit – they knew exactly what they were doing! And they were happy to do it.

And to raise the issue of other people who need to be prosecuted, where were the parents and guardians of those young women when the girls took off for a week on Fantasy Island? If we are going to be serious about protecting sexually active 17 year-olds, let’s really be serious.

Clearly, the central issue in the Epstein case is the identities of the adult males (and females?) who were paying for services. It is beyond disappointing that the Trump Administration now appears to be part of the cover-up.

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FWIW: According to ChatGPT, Epstein Island (Little Saint James), falls under the jurisdiction of the US Virgin Islands, where prostitution is illegal. While prostitution and paedophilia are extremely serious offenses, any notion of the alleged blackmail operation has been squashed, which is far more serious as far as national interests and security are concerned.

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I think Trump (with good reason) believes he can tell his base anything and they will just defend him. This is traditional politics but Trump does have more than traditional support from his base. He has loyalty. Support for Presidents since Kennedy was mostly party allegiance.

Trump has both. There are those that don’t care about anything except not losing to the blue team and there are those that have complete faith in Trump.

Asking “Are we still talking about this” is an obvious deflection tactic. It is used by terrible bosses when they want their subordinates to stop talking about an uncomfortable issue.

I spent a little time reviewing comments on X. Comments from influencers and the replies.

It doesn’t look good for Trump. I would say eighty percent are very critical.

You get the comments from the Trump is Jesus folks (the same people I assume believed QAnon) that Trump will still be making arrests. Less than 5 percent

Maybe 10 percent are “let’s move on”comments. It is hard to distinguish whether these are from red team loyalists or Trump loyalists.

5 percent are on the blue team. Critical of Trump but it is unlikely they were critical of Biden for anything.

Events like these help sort out the influencers that are consistent and which are mouthpieces for Trump or the red team.

It also raises a philosophical question. When do you stand on principle when you believe that doing so will cause great harm to yourself or others? The uncertainty that is inherent when you don’t have personal access to all the information or because the consequences cannot be known, makes the question more difficult.

I think this is the primary reason we get red and blue team loyalty.

I asked grok to summarize various philosophical positions on upholding principles when you think doing so will cause harm to others. Kant (Deontology) was the only philosopher that argues that you must uphold your principles even if harm results. Most others fully support or lean towards supporting the lesser of two evils approach.

I am similar to Kant by nature. However, my logical side knows that that this only works if the vast majority have the same philosophy. It isn’t even close in the US today.

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This is a good point. But I have much more sympathy for these girls than I do for the grown men of power that had sex with them.

There are many reasons that society should be more harsh on the solicitors of prostitution.

Regardless the issue from a political viewpoint is whether the government functions for the people or for the elites. We know the answer, but some were hoping Trump was going to drain the swamp.

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One possibility is they say they found porn on his machines. It’s possible that they are counting various people seen in third party porn as “victims”.

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This may be true. Bondi did say that the thousands of videos were porn he downloaded.

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Can’t :heart:this enough, @Gavin. Whatever Epstein was doing, he didn’t have “victims”, he had accomplices: the young ladies themselves, if sui juris, or if any were under the age of consent,then their parents or guardians.
If Epstein’s clients or friends or whatever they were only wanted young, they coulda picked up snaggle toothed drug addicted teenagers on the streets of LA or San Fran, for a couple dollars or a handful of coke. These were well-curated young ladies, sleek, plump, nice teeth, shiny hair.
We already have his flight logs, his black book, his date calendar. And we already know they don’t mean a thing: Alan Dershowitz was in there somewhere, the late great Virginia Giuffre accused him , he sued, and she was forced to admit that, um maybe she made a mistake. Do we still think he kept a list perhaps labeled “My Honest to God Real List”?
Would he have needed a list to remember , f’rinstance, that Bill Clinton was there?

Y’know what image is presiding over all this? It’s Epstein’s iconic oil painting of Bill Clinton, wearing an off-shoulder shiny blue dress and high heels, provocatively dangling his legs over the arms of the chair—and pointing directly at the viewer, in a parody of the famous Uncle Sam pose. The old goat was on the island many times. Why doesn’t anybody depose him?
Y’know, when Woody Allen was cleared of my charges by law enforcement, Yale University still thought he was a child molester and did its own investigation. I reckon that’s legal (though in this case it would certainly be dangerous). So let’s go, Tucker Carlson or somebody. Whyncha talk to the chambermaids, the pool guys and groundskeepers from the island? Whyncha suborn some IRS employee to get his tax returns? There have to be dozens of people with information.

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That reminds me of when Trump said during a campaign rally back in 2016, “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn’t lose any voters, OK?”—I think he was right. What was that saying about power and corruption again?

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Since you mention it – a gentleman I know some years back while at college was one of several who got a summer job at Epstein’s ranch in New Mexico. It is a 3,000 acre spread (that’s 12 square kilometers, for any Canadian) with lots of summer work required – cattle, horses, fence repair, brush clearance. During that hard work, he recalls meeting people like Prince Andrew and the young women.

Maybe leave off the “plump”. :grin: They struck him in appearance and behavior as fairly similar to the girls he saw at college. It can be difficult to tell a 17-year old from a 19-year old.

Your point stands, Hypatia. There must be hundreds of people who have direct personal observations of who-where-when – people who have never been interviewed by “law enforcement”, if that is the right term for those people.

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People on the Right are going to allow this to fuck up everything. To overshadow the investigations into Comey and Brennan, to overshadow Trump’s work on the international scene, the border, to overshadow the now patently obvious fact that we didn’t have a president 2021-2025.
Does the fact that Epstein was running one of many, many prostitution rings extant in our country (oh yes, yes, surely you know sex slavery is epidemic worldwide)really matter more than those issues?
I know many people will say yes. I know I am fighting a losing battle here and on other sites. I’m going to try to stop writing about it now.
But ask yourself: suppose Ol’Jo[k]e’s DoJ had announced they were closing the investigation (instead of doing nothing at all with it for 4 years; remember this started in 2019)?
How do you think the Left woulda reacted? Would they have blamed Bygone?
Nah. THEY know how to win, and stay on top. they’re used to it. We’re not.

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I am divided on this. On the one hand, there are much more pressing matters – the continuing US/NATO proxy war against Russia in the Ukraine, with its ever-present risk of nuclear Armageddon; the senseless continuing provocation of China over Taiwan, the same China that provides the real goods which keep the de-industrialized US in operation.

On the other hand – there is a good case that Epstein was murdered in jail by the very authorities we trust to uphold the law; there is a good case that blackmail of powerful people may have occurred through Epstein’s activity. FedGov is in a “Caesar’s wife” situation – it is not enough to be pure, it must be seen to be pure. By trying to sweep the Epstein issue under the carpet, the Administration destroys the people’s trust, which is the only secure basis for “self-government”. That is pretty important!

Back to the strange feature here. Epstein had long since fallen off the front pages. It had become another one of those issues like Obama/Soetero’s citizenship – it would have languished and been forgotten. Then an obscure unsigned unconvincing memo leaked to a Far Left media site brought the whole issue back front & center, and exposed a very disconcerting side of the Trump Administration. Who is manipulating whom? And why?

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Why would it be the people’s fault and not the President’s?

My rhetorical question is: Why would it be important to investigate Comey and Brennan? Who cares what Comey and Brennan did or didn’t do? Or as Trump would say “Are we still talking about Brennan?”.

The Epstein thing isn’t about a prostitution ring. It is about whether the government institutions are corrupt. Isn’t that the same reason anyone would want Comey or Brennan investigated?

If all Epstein represents is a little fun the boys had with some underage girls, why wouldn’t Trump let people be prosecuted? He has no love for Bill Gates, Prince Andrew or Bill Clinton. Trump doesn’t strike me as a person that cares too much about anyone other than himself and his immediate family. Does he have life long friends? He really doesn’t. Although Epstein claimed he was Trump’s best friend for ten years.

Why wouldn’t Biden allow people to be prosecuted?

Why hasn’t the media done any investigation?

Supposedly, he was a billionaire currency trader. Why hasn’t anyone provided the story. Who were his partners? What filings did his company make? What were his big trades? How many clients did he have? Where did he get his start? How did he grow his business? Was he still currency trading? What did he get from “entertaining” elites by providing them young girls for sex? Did they become clients of this mysterious firm?

It smells like an intelligence operation. An investigation into his business would be really helpful in proving that is was a construct or legitimate.

Speculation is that Epstein was running a Mossad operation. What if it was a Russian operation or a Chinese operation?

When I read what I quoted from you, I read it as… why would the voters fuck up all the good Trump has done because he isn’t willing to allow a Mossad operation on the US to be revealed.

If we are so far gone that we cannot investigate an intelligence operation intended to gain leverage on powerful people, elections don’t mean a thing.

Didn’t Trump campaign on draining the swamp? I thought this meant reducing corruption and the influence of special interests and entrenched bureaucrats in DC.

Trump pushed the narrative that the government is corrupt more than anyone. Many of his voters believed him. He whipped them up. He encouraged them to take their government back. People believed him. They believed the government was corrupt and thought he would end the corruption.

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For what very little it is worth, I recall reading years ago that the very wealthy gentleman who owned the “Victoria’s Secret” ladies’ underwear business was the key early financier.

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The entire situation is strange. Trump could have let the investigation run on until the end of his term. Why blatantly contradict his administration’s earlier statements and release a determination he knows will anger his base? Perhaps he is deliberately enraging MAGA in preparation for something. The simpler explanation is that he is a scam artist protecting his own interests. There is also the argument, probably popular among members of Epstein’s circle, that if the people aren’t willing to hold you accountable for your abuses, you deserve to get away with them :man_shrugging:.

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There is also the argument that they moved in the same circles, as did Trump and the Clintons, once, so they were often photographed together.

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I thought they were good friends. Maybe that explains why he didn’t “lock her up”. LOL! :slightly_smiling_face:

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There’s also the saying "Tell me who your friends are, and I will tell you who you are.’

Putting on my conspiracy hat, the thought did occur to me that the whole Epstein episode is a psyop or a psyop within a psyop. To what end? I don’t know. But in any case, all the actors are playing their assigned roles beautifully.

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Trump explained why he didn’t lock her up. He thought, how would it look, a former First Lady in prison? Well, he was wrong. You cannot let the wounded viper live.

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Well, we all believe what we want to believe, but I don’t believe that for a New York second. As far as I’m concerned (with hindsight), “lock her up” was just more WWE theater that he’s famous for.

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It is a very lawyerly evasion (i.e. near lie) to say there was no Epstein “Client List”. Yes, it is probably strictly accurate to say that Epstein did not keep a sheet of paper pinned to his fridge titled “Client List” – but it is dishonest to imply that Epstein did not have dealings with clients.

Equally, it is another lawyerly evasion to say that Epstein videos would not be released to protect the identity of the underage individuals involved. By that logic, it would be impossible ever to prosecute anyone for child porn, because the evidence could never be shown. If Epstein for his own entertainment downloaded from the internet child porn made by others, there would indeed be no need ever to release those videos to the public. But if Epstein himself made child porn videos which included his “clients”, then that information really does need to be made public. There is no need to protect identities if the “child” is a 17 &1/2 year-old prostitute.

Although the FBI & DOJ & Trump Administration are apparently paralyzed, a citizen has tried to put together a list of Epstein’s clients based on already-released court filings.

The Epstein Client List — Why is Trump Breaking His Promise to Publish?

Surprising number of female names on that list.

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