No Epstein Client List

Not to be argumentative, but grok searches are about at the level of Wikipedia. All that shows is there are multiple documents floating around the internet which make that allegation – it does not prove the allegations are true.

Now, if there really are proven cases where someone did practice pedophilia, why is the DOJ not prosecuting the individuals involved – including the parents/guardians who allowed their children to be abused? If the only adult who was involved was Epstein himself, then the DOJ should demonstrate that fact in open court to clear the DOJ itself of suspicion. Why is the DOJ claiming that there is no-one to prosecute?

No thinking person can be happy about this situation.

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Somehow I posted my reply before finishing.

I didn’t see this reply by you before I posted my last reply.

You did a better job of explaining what I was trying to explain. That the system can result in reaching its current state simply because of the way people make choices without any evil intentions.

My voting and who and what I support is based on a sort of Pascal’s wager. If both parties are working towards the same end, my vote and support will not change anything. There is no added loss. However, if there is a set of people trying to make the place better, not supporting them is a tragedy.

I will not vote for, nor support, people whose positions on most every issue I disagree. Not voting is supporting these positions.

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I can see how my comments might have come across as “anti-voting” or as advocating for total disengagement from “the system”—that wasn’t my intention and I apologize for giving that impression. By all means, hedge your bets. I’ll vote too if I think there’s some short-term, incremental benefit—particularly at the local level.

But my main objection is this: don’t piss in my pocket and tell me it’s raining. I’m done with fantasy politics, red team/blue team boosterism, and the manufactured BS narratives that prop it all up.

If the spectacle still entertains you (the “universal you” :slightly_smiling_face:)—or if you still hold out hope that the system can reform itself—then carry on. But once you see that American politics is just another form of WWE theater—scripted, performative, fake—designed to keep you on the reservation, you can’t unsee it.

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Well, that’s me. I do think Trump and his successors will succeed, with the help of the most conservative young generation in many decades.

But even if I didn’t, I’d still participate in every strategic voting opportunity, as that is the only choice for a non-violent resolution. (Or minimally-violent.) I don’t discount the possibility that an American civil war will come again, or some form of societal collapse, and I’ll prepare for those.

(Also, Despair is a sin.)

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How does pointing out certain realities and how what we’re doing isn’t working equal to despair? If not wanting to do the same thing over and over again (e.g. “vote harder”) while expecting a different result is a sin, then I guess I’m guilty. If I thought the situation was totally hopeless, I would just shut up and not waste my time commenting. I don’t have any answers, but I hope that someone out there much smarter than me does.

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I have no doubt that Trump will succeed in implementing his agenda, but the question is, what is his agenda? It’s pretty clear that his publically stated goals are far different from his real ones. Time will tell.

Do we really know that? Here is a snippet about our “representative” US Congress from Russian press; it seems not to have got much play in US media:
US lawmakers move to curb Trump’s control over Ukraine aid — RT World News

… The new NDAA draft was passed in a bipartisan vote this week. It reaffirms US support for Ukraine, extends aid through 2028, increases annual authorizations from $300 million to $500 million, and requires the Pentagon to continue intelligence support for Kiev, according to a summary released on Friday.

Senator Jeanne Shaheen, however, said the bill also includes language blocking the Pentagon from halting aid or intelligence sharing without congressional approval. She noted that provisions listed in the bill “put guardrails” on the Trump administration “to make sure promised military assistance continues to flow to Ukraine.” …

A reasonable interpretation is that President Trump was being honest when he stated he wanted to stop the war in the Ukraine. But now he has to face a bunch of warmongers in our worthless Congress who want to keep on wasting our money and other people’s lives, resulting in a divergence between words & actions. Presumably, there are other such barriers to the President implementing the policies on which We the People elected him.

The fundamental problem in the US (and the West more generally) is that our model of “representative democracy” is broken. But the power to fix that will have to be clawed out of the cold dead fingers of the current Political Class.

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You’re right, of course, we don’t really know—it’s speculation on my part based on my imperfect interpretation of incomplete information and subject to my biases.

I agree.

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I don’t think politics is scripted.

Here is a short clip of the reaction of the Secretary of Defense and the Director of the CIA to the announcement of sending more arms to Ukraine. Do you think it looks scripted?

Two complete opposite facial expressions by Sec. Defense Hegseth and CIA Director Ratcliffe when it's announced Ukraine will be getting more weapons. pic.twitter.com/pLBIKMxevC

— JOSH DUNLAP (@JDunlap1974) July 12, 2025
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Come on, Mettelus…you know that’s not what I meant by “scripted”.

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I just came across this “mockumentary”—BARNUM WORLD FEATURE FILM—it describes exactly what I’ve been trying to say:

On the topic of “mockumentaries”, I think this video is a good companion to the movie Idiocracy.

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For those of us who are still puzzled by the apparent attempt by the Trump Squad to sweep the Epstein matter under the carpet by leaking an unsigned, undated, un-indexed draft memo to a Far Left media outfit –

Maybe we are misunderestimating the deviousness of President Trump:
Pounce! Democrats Suddenly Care About Epstein Files, Move To Force Disclosure | ZeroHedge

… Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) announced Saturday he plans to introduce an amendment requiring a House vote on making the Epstein files fully public. …

Please don’t throw me in the briar patch!

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5D chess! LOL! :slight_smile:

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I’m not sure the 5D chess analogy is relevant here. This is more like Tic-Tac-Toe.

CongressScum spend their lives collecting “campaign contributions” and trying to avoid responsibility for anything. But soon those CongressScum may have to make a decision – either for or against releasing the Epstein files.

If they vote not to release the files (which is probably the way to bet), they have to take responsibility for that cover-up. If they vote to release the files, they will have responsibility for the consequences.

If the Trump Squad planned this out, they are smart people. If they stumbled into it by accident, they are very lucky people. What was it Napoleon said about wanting lucky generals?

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I apologize, but I don’t know what you mean. I was going to ask you to give an example of what you mean but left that question off.

I will give an example of politics of being fake. The politicians act like the other party is evil. That it is life and death to take seats from them. Then you will see them laughing and shaking hands at the after party. I am thinking of the picture of Lyndsey Graham with Biden. I can’t recall every picture but there are multiple pictures of these people fist bumping and generally acting like they are best of friends.

When they know their base is watching, they do things or avoid doing things as a performance for their base. Never clap for anything the President from the other team says at the State of the Union. You may call this scripted or a performance. It is a performance for their voter base. Many voters no longer tolerate anything outside of 100% agreement with them.

There is a post today on this type of behavior by many people. They will unsubscribe the moment that the person says anything that doesn’t affirm their views.

That actually doesn't prove what you think it does.

Most people on social media look for affirmation, for others to reinforce their own views.

They follow when they think they're getting, and unfollow when they don't.

Sycophancy, not honesty, is rewarded in the short term. https://t.co/ywTFEQhm0b

— Rich Baris The People's Pundit (@Peoples_Pundit) July 14, 2025

Politicians have always told people what they want to hear because that is what people demand. It is a performance and some of it is scripted (like brining signs to the State of the Union), but I don’t think this is what you mean.

I am pointing out that there are policy disagreements at the highest levels of government on one of the biggest issues. Which means that there are policy disagreements between the parties that are real and meaningful.

I am not defending the government. I don’t think the current design would ever work for a very large country. Few, if any, citizens knows what is going on. Money has too much influence (because it takes money to get elected). It is has too much power. Between the need for money to get elected and the power amassed, the system is easily corruptible and corruption is incentivized.

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This is a very good point. I have been trying to think how Trump gets this off his back. I didn’t think of this idea. I am poor at tic tac toa. :smirking_face:

Bet it doesn’t come to a vote

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I guess these voters must not vote or vote third party?

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No worries! :slight_smile: I think the mockumentary that I linked to above touches on many of the excellent points that you made in your comment and expands on how American politics can be viewed as “scripted”. I suppose by “script” I was thinking more in terms of “structural” (system) or “formulaic”—e.g. the roles that politicians play, the limits of acceptable debate, and the predictable narratives that get recycled over and over again to manufacture consent.

I’ll finally answer your querstion. :slight_smile: No, I don’t think it looked scripted. However, if you take the idea of politics as theater and politicians as actors to its logical end, it stands to reason that some politicians would be very good at giving convincing performances—especially if there are certain incentives involved (e.g. money, blackmail). For example, Trump is literally an actor—he has his own star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. But even in WWE, there is a certain amount of improvisation and genuine surprise—someone could miss a beat, something unexpected can happen, accidents can occur.

That’s true. Speaking about myself, I have changed many of my “conservative” views over the past 4 or 5 years and I find myself agreeing with people (although often for different reasons) I used to think were out of their freaking minds. It’s always a good idea to get all sides of an issue, and not just the ones on the limited red-blue spectrum—think 5D, like Trump! :slight_smile:

Good example. As another example, the mockumentary showed a clip of Trump saying this about the Clintons at his inaugural luncheon in the Capitol’s Statuary Hall back in 2017:

I was very honored…very, very honored when I heard that President Bill Clinton and Secretary Hillary Clinton was coming today. I’d like you to stand up…and honestly there’s nothing more I can say…I have a lot of respect for those two people.

Of course, respect can take many forms—including the kind reserved for a formidable adversary, or for a criminal’s ingenuity and skill—however, I get the sense that that’s not what Trump meant.

Yes, for sure—the SOTU is a literal example of a scripted, often cringe, theatric performance.

You’re right, this isn’t what I had in mind, BUT now that you mention it, I think it is a de facto script that politicians follow to win people’s trust as part of a broader “confidence game”. One of the traits of a psychopath is telling people what they want to hear and shaping themselves into what they think the other person wants them to be.

I wonder how much is genuine conflict and how much is theater designed to maintain the illusion of choice and accountability—I suspect that these disagreements operate within carefully managed bounds. Of course, for the system to appear credible to the masses, it must allow a certain amount of infighting and dysfunction, as long as the deeper goals—endless wars, corporate influence, centralized control—proceed apace. At the end of the day, what matters most are the outcomes. In the mockumentary, the producer character asks the question “How do you know what a system is designed to do?”—and then he answers: “You observe what the system actually does.”

I also think there are a lot of what I would call “throw away” issues—issues that have nothing to do with the ultimate goals of the system (or the people running it)—that might be used to achieve some short-term end and then discarded (e.g. not promoted anymore or allowing a side to claim its demise as a victory) once they’ve served their purpose. DEI and the whole transgender thing are two possible candidates that come to mind.

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Epstein funded edge.org in the early 00’s that was one of the best places for public communication of science:
THE EDGE OF COMPUTATION SCIENCE PRIZE

His interest in science and technology was genuine, and the money was allocated well. That community led to many relationships with big names in science and technology.

People are complex.

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A great interview with G. Edward Griffin:

GEG: And so, in my skeptical, view, Brannon, I think we have to take a deep breath and say maybe we’ve been fooled. Now we don’t want to be fooled. You know, the old saying is it’s harder to deceive somebody than it is to convince them that they’ve been deceived.