I took my dog to the vet today. She recently had a mast cell cancer tumor removed.
And the vet, whom I’ve known since I was….i reckon, 6? said, just in conversation, that he had cured a badly injured dog of paralysis with stem cell injections—and, that he, himself, was getting them. With good results.
He said he goes to Cancun twice a year, each shot costs 15K.
He said this can be done with a person’s own cells, we all produce stem cells all the time, but the best you can get are placental stem cells, from umbilical cords.
He said it positively affects everything: eyesight, hearing, hair growth, arthritic joints.
He said we don’t pursue it in the U.S. because people think you have to kill human embryos to get stem cells (which you don’t,)
Dear polymaths, is this true?
Yes of course I immediately asked MY doctor, my BMD, and you can rest assured his advice will be what I ultimately follow.
Ok, I ain’t lookin’ to live forever. But we lead an active life here. I have no complaints really. I mean, I wish I didn’t need glasses to read, I sometimes miss comments in high voices, I seem to be getting arthritis in one little finger joint-
But if I could do something for 30K a year that would mean I could continue my life here for 15 or20 more years—
I would DO it!
So…whaddya think?
Sometimes I fear that I will not live long enough to see the coming inevitable collapse – what an event to miss! At other times, I fear I will indeed live long enough to see it. It seems like expectations of the future should be an element in one’s consideration – would it be better to die in 1928 or 1948?
On the practical level, another element to consider should be what one does with those extra years. Retirement has been described as a Never Never Land – it never happened before in human history, and it will never happen again. Financial realities mean it will likely be necessary for long-lived people to keep working … and career opportunities for active 95 year olds are never going to be equal to those for a healthy intelligent 25 year old.
Personal view – we humans are not meant to live for ever. Death comes to us all. The Good Lord can have me whenever he wants.
Yuh… at first it seems like your post wasn’t responsive to mine, but actually it is. What I’m saying is I DO wanna live forever. And as far as we know nobody has done that yet. “Empty your heart of its mortal dream……”
What are the negative side effects?
I am intrigued by stem cell therapy.
If these injections can improve your quality of life I say go for it.
I said quality not quantity.
I am not a doctor or a medical researcher.
I am impressed and shocked in a good way that your veterinarian is getting them.
Maybe you can travel with your veterinary friend to observe first?
Evolution has optimized our life expectancy for 3 phases of our life:
- growth
- maturity (reproductive period)
- senescence (helping our offspring reproduce)
Our lifes are simply evolutionary circles in a much bigger game of a relay race that’s been going on for billions of years.
Yes, there’s some issues with this, in particular, we don’t quite pass important learnings beyond ~60 years, and as a result, human societies tend to engage in periodic mess with a cycle of around 100 years, as documented here Lifecourse Associates: The Four Turnings
Nonetheless, we shouldn’t take ourselves too seriously. Just do the life well.
I did not express the idea very well. A 75-year old might have died after a satisfactory long life in 1928. What if she had taken treatments which allowed her to live another 20 years to 1948? She would have had to live through the world-shaking events of the Great Depression and World War II. Who knows what the impacts on her life would have been – impoverishment? the tragedy of watching her grandchildren killed in war? pain and suffering for herself?
Would that person in 1948 consider that extending her life for 20 years had been a positive? Life extension for any individual would be a step into the unknown – and unknowable. That is not to say that life extension is a bad thing, simply that there will be consequences which are hard to predict.
Yeah but isn’t this true no matter how long you live? I mean, you could say someone born in 1930 who died at age 10 was lucky to have missed WWII.
Still I know what you mean. I think what happens to people is, they grow up assimilating to certain prejudices. If we didn’t, every decision would be agonizing. They’re our paradigms . Then toward the end of our lifespan they begin to fall, we cant take anything for granted any more. We can’t navigate, the stars we thought would always be in our firmament are out. Finally we’re happy to give up our lives.
I think Citizen Bitcoin is right – anything which extends the quality of life is worth considering.
On the other side, I tend to be concerned about the financial/budgetary aspect of things. With the possible exception of Chile, no country today has a sustainable pension system for its older population. Life extension makes a bad problem worse for the nation as a whole, although it may be a positive benefit for an individual. The “Tragedy of the Commons” keeps on popping up in the most surprising places!
This trans-human idea … the miracle wonder … the cure for cancer …
Sorry but to me all this is fear based.
FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out).
To me this is viewing life upside down.
Live in the eternal NOW.
In the NOW there is NO fear.
Why?
Because if you experience something not pleasant you will take action for the mind to regain stability.
Fear ONLY exist in the mind when you project in the past or future.
This trans-human “progress” is running away from the NOW.
Carpe Diem.
Everything you say is true! It’s just…I want now to go on as long as possible.
I find it very tempting, especially in the newfound knowledge and experience of a 72 year old mate with a serious abdominal cancer. It is generally not curable, but I wonder what stem cells might do for her. Whatever the risks, they are likely worth taking. For myself, I would consider it, if it didn’t involve travel. I work to hold off the delusion I won’t suddenly get sick and/or die because I am so busy and needed for her sake. It’s not like some major surgery! Simply draw off some blood (even bone marrow harvesting isn’t a huge deal), treat it with some chemicals and re-infuse it. It works or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t work, it’s not likely to do much damage. Even if it didn’t extend life, but merely make it better, seems worth it and, as potential life or health extension treatments go, it is not expensive and the price would be very reasonable if it became commonplace. Much room for economies of scale.
I was wondering why steroids are not commonly used for people over 50 or even 40 to offset muscle loss.
I have not done any research, but on the surface they seem low risk when not super dosed. I am pretty sure bezos and the zuck are on some drug enhanced muscle building regime.
I don’t follow the longevity community, but wonder what they say on muscle growth regimes as well as stem cell.
Maybe your theory applies. Can’t afford to have people live longer.
Well, until the birth rate increases again, I think we can, especially if they’re going to have a healthier old age.
We can afford to have people live longer – as long as those older people are working hard at the coal face, producing real goods and services that other human beings want … and (importantly) paying net taxes. It is not clear if the enthusiasts for longevity actually want 100-year old people having to work as welders, electricians, nurses, airline pilots … and coders too.
And Joe Rogan, and many more. A periodic regimen of TRT seems to be the de facto approach. Rogan in particular is dedicated to the better life through chemistry approach. He’s also a committed marijuana smoker and that, in my view, is the one area where he’s role modeling the wrong behavior for the young men and boys that look up to him.
The body uses a positive feedback loop to regulate testosterone (see the book of knowledge for a brief overview) and so supplementing with too much T or for too long may inadvertently lead to a decrease in luteinizing hormone (LH) levels, which in turn can result in a decrease in overall testosterone production.
Bone density improvements, better mood, and increased libido are often cited as direct TRT benefits. With some perceiving risks relating to stimulating prostate cancer outcomes, but also cardio vascular events.
If “bro science” is any indication, cycling T might be the way to go - question is access and trust in the medical professional’s judgement and experience. By the way, it does not have to be TRT necessarily, there are a few other synthetic steroid like substances that have similar benefits with slightly different risk profiles. Fascinating stuff…
Does it work? Judge for yourself 
Stem cell injections have a mixed track record when you look at the published record.
-
Intra-articular Stem Cell Injection for OA Modification:
- Direct injection of stem cells into joints shows potential in enhancing repair and limiting destructive processes in osteoarthritis (OA).
- Early clinical trials using adipose-derived stem cells (ASCs) for knee OA indicate improved joint functionality, though further research is needed to confirm these effects.
- Mesenchymal stem cell (MSC) injections in equine models during early-stage chemically induced OA were effective, but less so in later stages due to severe cartilage loss.
-
Anti-inflammatory Benefits:
- Stem cells’ anti-inflammatory properties may help prevent or delay OA when administered early in the disease process.
- Studies have shown that MSCs can alter the balance of inflammation and regeneration, similar to their effects in other injury models.
- Experiments demonstrate that intra-articular injection of MSCs can prevent degenerative changes post-articular fractures and enhance meniscal repair, potentially preventing OA.
-
Manipulating Endogenous Stem Cells for Cartilage Repair:
- Acellular implants are being explored to guide the regeneration of the articular surface by manipulating endogenous stem cells.
- Research includes developing scaffolds that promote the homing and differentiation of these stem cells into areas of cartilage damage.
- Various scaffolds and hydrogels have been designed to enhance matrix retention and guide stem cell differentiation at injury sites, with promising results in directing appropriate tissue regeneration.
What could go wrong? You’d be $30K poorer and take on some minimal risk of an in-patient procedure going wrong. My take is at that price point, those injections are good to sell to patients, not necessarily good to buy
There is an interesting psychological effect - sort of similar to picking expensive wines for dinner - individuals that have taken the stem cell shots have “skin in the game” for a positive outcome, so they tend to minimize risks and maximize subjective benefits.
Also, we shouldn’t discount the placebo effect…you know, mind over matter…or maybe that’s what you were referring to.
Yeah I get all that. The entire thing is very unclear to me. Placental cells or grow-your-own? My BMD said don’t the cells have to be directed? Like if you wanna cure AMD don’t the cells have to be injected into your eyes?
Seems to me, this would be a matter of the rent, or the taxes, on this body. Which has been a great model!
My Jenny, as I call her, has really done a great job for me/us. (Why do I call my body “Jenny”? Cuz St Francis called his body “Brother Ass”. His woulda been Jack, so mine, Jenny.) Anyway she/we have had our share of…everything: all sensual pleasures, love, beauty, food, strength, health. (Knock wood—I hope I don’t jinx myself😞)
It all would be a consolation, truly, if this night my soul should be demanded of me. I am totally about gratitude. That word will be on my tombstone.
SHOULD I want more, a few years past my threescore and ten.?
I don’t know if I should, but I DO.
There is literature on this as well. I can’t look it up at the moment, but placental have better differentiation capabilities compared to “your own”. Many (most?) practitioners create an infusion that combines the stem cells with other “safe and effective” adjuvants.
It’s tough to tease out a statistically strong signal out of published data, but if done in reasonably sterile conditions it might be one of those Pascal Wager situations if money is not an objection. I heard of clinics in Central America typically (but also Germany) so you have to ask yourself what level of risk you’re willing to take on.
Sure, after all you have, e.g. sham surgery in orthopedics being as good as medically accepted treatment modalities.